So UCAPA have a new website – and bloody good it is too.
Interesting to note they are doing everything that the River Kelvin Angling Association should be doing – there permit price is now rising to £30 for trout and photographs must be attached. Their Salmon permit is rising to £55.
Should UCAPA take over the management of the Kelvin?
hom many members are their now my freind fishing legally on the kelvin ,i feel changes are most definatly needed as soon as poss to protect what we have ,and also i do feel their is a need for salmon tagging etc!!.oh by the is the milngavie fly tying club still on for thurday mate plz let me know ..
Hi Derek, thanks for commenting – the Thursday night club is still on – I have no car just now so will probably be trying to be a lift myself!
Anyone got a decent map of the areas that can be fished under the UCAPA permit. Never having fished the Clyde, the descriptions of where you can and can’t fish may as well be in dutch!
I’ve got one somewhere I made up for myself, it’s 99% accurate as I’m not sure about a couple of the excepted areas or how much of the tribs it covers but it’s certainly serviceable if no-one has anything better to offer. It’s a pretty big image file though (to allow you to zoom in on the map and see road numbers etc) and I don’t know how to post that here. I could post it in the Forum or e-mail you a copy. If anyone has anything better I’d be keen to see it myself, maybe I should e-mail UCAPA and ask… I know they have a good map as Kenny from the Anglers Attic in Wishaw has a copy on the wall of his shop.
As for UCAPA doing a good job and whether they should take over the Kelvin or not… I’ve held a UCAPA permit for 20 odd years and am of the opinion they do a pretty good job under difficult circumstances. There are some who don’t agree with me on that and there’s a lot of angling politics involved. I don’t know much about the KAA but I’m happy enough giving UCAPA my permit cash every year.
Jim
Hey Jim,
Would be great if you posted it in the forum – just follow the steps in this post : http://urbanflyfisher.com/forum/pike-on-the-fly/how-to-post-a-picture-1/page-1/
I know you know what you are doing anyway 🙂
I for one would be quite happy for UCAPA to manage the Kelvin and it’s tribs.
Perhaps it’s more a case of whether UCAPA actually want to manage the Kelvin. Would you?
My only gripe about UCAPA is the amount of stockies they’ve put in the river the last couple of years. I’m sure there are some that enjoy catching them, but I always feel really dissapointed when I think I’ve connected to a large wild trout, only to find a moth-eaten slab of uneducated protein pellets on the end of my line.
However, they do a fine job and the fishing represents great value for money which is why I will certainly be renewing my permit. The salmon permit sounds interesting. Does anyone have any stories of Salmon caught on the Clyde? Would be great to hear them!
cheers
Alex
Like you site – will linger by from time to time
Cheers!
Thanks flyfishertc – I think!
You are not like a virus or something are you?
Alex you hit on my pet peave as well, stocking. I’ve spoken to one of the directors about it many times (just a couple of fishers having a chat type of thing) and he says it’s more or less demanded by the permit holders. There are a lot of fishmongers on UCAPA’s water, that’s just one of the difficult circumstances I hinted at earlier.
It’s my understanding from these conversations though that they do have a long term strategy in place to alter the type and amount of stocking they do. Memory fails me on the details, as usual.
Hi Jim
That’s very interesting, thanks. I suppose any water will have those who fish for the pot and see the river as one big wet larder!
cheers, Alex
JIm has now kindly put some rough UCAPA maps up in the forum.
http://urbanflyfisher.com/forum/fly-fishing-discussion/rough-ucapa-maps/page-1/
I think that the clyde boys have done well(apart from stocking policies)and the clyde,unlike the kelvin,is no longer a haven for the freeloaders of the angling world.They also have a realistic price tag for the river.How viable their policies would be for the kelvin is however,a different matter,and its quite clear that the rivers are very different in character and appearance-as well as having anglers on it of a very different mindset!Change-as i’m sure most people would agee,is URGENTLY needed on the kelvin,because as we all know the current assoc couldny run a menage!
I am a little flumuxed by some folk wanting UCAPA to take over the management of the Kelvin especially as these proposers have not, as I would imagine, spoke to the Kelvin Committee first…or is that not how manners work? Regards UCAPA being the great managers, well, there are some folk that have other experiences of UCAPA – the political kind of experiences that don’t cut the mustard in real terms and certainly not in glowing fishery management experience. A personal view of UCAPA’s style of management is that they are stuck in the crustaceous period – akin to all Labour Party supporters.
Bye….election in Glenrothes…cannie wait for another Labour doing!
Boab
Hey Boab – thanks for the comment – regarding UCAPA taking over the Kelvin – it was a suggestion not a proposal!
To be honest though I think you will find the Kelvin committee are the ones stuck in the crustaceous period considering they have an average age of 104 😉
Naw Alastair, son, I’ve many years experience of folk fae the Kelvin and DG is only in his 70s: cannie speak for anyother wans other than DB, but I think he’s younger than DG. Funny thing, Alastair, you sound awfy like a few other folk that I’ve met in my fisheries management lifetime…the ones that are always telling folk like ma’sel that this or that needs done but they’re always busy when it actually comes to carrying it out e.g. dain it! Don’t take offence alastair but there are too many that think (at the outside) that they talk a good game but when it comes to actually doing it; they disappear like snaw aff a dyke.
Awe the best Alastair and don’t go in a huff, please.
Sorry to disagree Boab.
I have no experience of the Kelvin management team, and if it wasn’t for this website I would not believe they existed. Alistair has made comments in the past,most of it tongue in cheek, however he does raise some very interesting points. If the basics (signs, security, development etc) were being carried out then I could understand your frustration about those that comment while doing nothing. But you must also try and understand our frustration.
A few signs. How difficult can it be!
A website. I have seen some very basic but very useful efforts for the Clyde, Avon, White Cart. Funny that Alistair’s website probably encourages more people to fish the Kelvin than the Kelvin management team will achieve.
Some of those websites have photographs (yes real pictures) of commitee members and anglers working on their river. If it wasn’t for the friends of the Kelvin, and Charlie wrestling the odd tree, I’m not sure anything would get done at all.
Rant over.
Boab – I hope that is your real email addy you use as I just sent you a mail.
Hi Fellas, Boab again.
Naw sons I think you’ve taken my point the opposite way that I intended it to go in. As a long standing urban fisher on the White Cart, I’ve listened to many good ideas and intensions but, akin to many other aspects of life, the very folk that submit these proposals very rarely actually give their services in the physical sense.
No cheek was intended and I apologise if I’ve been so.
Boab
Hi Paul R and how are you?
I’ve just re-read what you said and I totally agree with you, however, I think there is a tendency (possibly due, in part, to the many commercially run fisheries that abound in Scotland nowadays) by folk to assume that all ‘fisheries’ are ran on the same principles e.g. on a full time basis with full time staff. My point (before I forget it) is that all the Clyde System Associations/Clubs are ran by volunteers, and by their nature, these folk can only do things (for the most part) in a voluntary way and they are (and always will be) dependent on folk volunteering: thats not to say, of course, that their approach to the management of the club/fishery should be nothing other than professional, but, and here is the crux, its not always possible to carry out some of the ideas/proposals/thoughts etc that are put forward by members. A good case in point would be the bailiffing. I’ve been a warranted bailiff (Clyde System) for 11-years. Just last year, after a meeting with several police officers, including the Wildlife Co-ordinater Officer for Strathclyde Police, I was told/advised that I (and other bailiffs) should not approached or attempt to deal with those who are poachers: I was told to let the Police deal with it. Paul, I think you will agree when I say that there a lot of folk out there that think that its just as case of doing this, that or the other to sort some things out…well thats not true and the majority of us are not a mixture of Bruce Lee, Mike Tyson and Steven Segal so the thought of ‘just sorting these folk out’ is fantasy. The reason why I said the last sentence is that many of these neds/poachers, call them what you want, are not about to listen to what you or I tell them and, realisitcally, only respect (or will listen) to somebody with obvious authority i.e. a Policeman. Our warrants for the Cldye System are (almost) wowed at by the Police as the amount of power that you can weild with it are quite exceptional, however, we are not specifically trained or, dare I say (and especially in my case) physically cut out to swap indifferences with some of these folk: thats why the cops are all fitted with stab-vests, for example!
I’d better end this rant now before I put everybody off this website.
Cheers guys and tight lines…up trees!
Boab
The three points I made regarding the Kelvin related to Signage, security, and development.
It doesn’t require Bruce Lee to put up a sign.
With regards to the security issue, I couldn’t agree with you more. Nobody, other than the police, should be approaching poachers. However I am sure as a bailiff you know that we are required to call the police if we think we see any. I can’t ask for any more than that. If there are no full or even part time bailiffs on the Kelvin then it is the responsibility of the anglers. Perhaps it would be a good idea to list contact details for someone employed in the constabulary that deals with such matters. Anybody got any?
On to development. The role of the management team as far as I see it, is not to carry out all the work required, but as a minimum they should make recommendations and try to arrange volunteer parties to carry it out. If memory serves me right White Cart have a great website (Walton Angling Club)that invites anglers to help out on arranged days. They then follow up with notes and pictures of the work carried out. It’s this level of organisation that is tempting me to join next year. Let me ask you this Boab. As a White Cart angler, what do you see as the major differences in the challenges faced by your river management team and that of the Kelvin? And further to that, how do you rate each associations approach to tackling these challenges?
Paul
Hi Paul,
I am aware of the Walton Angling Club, however, I’m with the Busby AA: we don’t have a website – perhaps we should get one in future – although we have an online poster.
Without speaking to the guys at the Walton (whom I know quite well ie Simon Cocker etc) I’d say (to answer you first question) that perhaps two things that the Walton has going for it against the Kelvin is that the Walton AC has been in existance a great deal longer (I think its 1888) and also they have a smaller membership and the Walton have, probably quite successfully, nurtured a kind of ‘family’ feeling or an ‘all for one’ type thing. It would be quite hard to do that in the Kelvin cos of the thousand something membership, however, saying that, you could do it (in some regards via a website, but not everybody is online or computer happy) but you would lose your momentum, I reckon. I don’t think that is much differences regards the “challenges” but a obvious one would be attracting folk to fish on rivers rather than the JCB holes-in-the-ground and get them away from the perceptions of you don’t have to learn much before becoming an angler: but this is probably the same as most river clubs.
Regards your second question: without having a great deal to do with the Kelvin (other than via the RCFMT and one of the founding members) however I sort see where you coming from: e.g. the Walton are trying to make a connection with their members (through different media re websites) while the Kelvin (it would seem) do not try to involve their membership to the same degree. My own experiences (through the Busby AA, if I can use this as an example in order to try and better answer your question) is that I am perpetually trying to involve our membership but its often neigh impossible to bring people into the fold/get everyone singing from the same hymn sheet and/or turning out to clean out the river on that freezing Sunday morning cos they tend to shirk away from it and silently insist that thats the job for the committee or somebody else rather than them. Its getting people to commit their time and maintaining that commitment Paul, thats the panacea for everything.
Boab
Hi Paul me again,
I ran out of library computer time and had to log out and back in again: so if I’ve not answered you questions succinctly please let me know as I was a wee bit rushed for time: also please forgive the mistakes as my fingers were typing to quickly for my brain to keep up!
Cheers
Boab
Hi Paul,
Regards the Police Officers in the River Kelvin area.
Best thing to do is call in at Pitt Street HQ and ask for a list of Community Police Officers all along the rivers system and make a point of actually meeting and talking to these individual officers about the problems face-to-face. I did this for the Busby AA and folk might be a little shocked or even miffed to know that the Police (other than those that are anglers themselves) are not clued-up on Fisheries Protection Law and can be quite oblivious to specific subjects such as this one: so don’t take things for granted. If you see a Busby AA Season Permit we have six specific numbers for individual Police Officers from basically the top of our leased water to the bottom. Ironically, though, some of the complainers (that I hear moaning via the grapevine) are adverse to phoning these same Police Officers and would rather moan (in a side-ways fashion) through some fishing tackle shopkeepers than telephone the very people that they’ve been advised to phone in the first place!
Cheers
Boab
UCAPA have updated their website again. Some good legal stuff and Government agencies. It’s really up to folk to get organised and team up together rather than do things alone. Four or five folk could put up signs and ask for permits (together) and get stuff moving. Word of mouth gets out that the river is being patrolled and people buy permits and it snowballs the right way. It’s all Volunteer work. Self Sufficient. You have to win people over, get linked into the various agencies and NGOs. Start sources of revenue and keep it going. The river is worth the effort. Eventually you’ll have a large clubhouse, several marked landrovers and radios! The river will benefit and you’ll feel great rather than moaning. Don’t moan on here or poachers and neds will understand that you all have low morale and lack leadership and organisation.
And for those intending to fish for Grayling remember that the UCAPA 2008 Permit ends on the last day of December (and a new one needs a Passport Type Picture) as opposed to the Lamington AA one which ends in March 2009
So am I correct in thinking that the UCAPA permit will cover me for Grayling up to December – I do not need to buy the separate Grayling ticket that is available?
That’s correct Alistair .I presume they issue the Grayling only ticket for those who wish to fish ONLY for Grayling or those who have only bought the Salmon Ticket .
Details are here
http://www.ucapaltd.co.uk/index_files/UCAPALtd.htm
It makes sense now – thanks for that Stuart!