It is not about fecking rod rests!

(PreambleThe River Kelvin Angling Association Secretary (Paul Reid) has resigned – this started with Paul wanting anglers to cease set lining and using rod rests on the river. This was seen (I think) as a fly versus other methods vendetta (even though Paul is a metal flinging barbarian) and caused a great deal of bad feeling amongst the club members – pretty much all the ones that were busy set lining and using rod rests.  Paul then got on with the job of being a fantastic secretary – attending meetings and dealing with the voluntary job in a very professional manner – he lined up many opportunities and everyone agreed that in a few years the club and river would be in a much better condition than it is now – he then walked the river with the police – something that has been done on many other rivers- it then gets all a bit complicated – this caused problems as they actually met very few anglers, only guys out drinking with outstanding warrants.  Paul was then hunted like a fox by groups of guys out with dogs was then told not to go near the river as some chaps wanted to have a chat about their grievances – he then went back out with the police. To cut a long story short he resigned as he had no other option – when a bailiff says “are you going to feed my kids if I get killed?” it makes you question your position somewhat – for some more sordid details and info please go to the thread on the forum. I suppose it is only fair to tell you at this point I too have resigned my position as an office bearer thus ensuring the conjecture about my on again/off again relationship with the association )

It is not about the fecking rod rests!

A young boy – maybe 14 – goes to the river during his summer holidays with a fishing rod and a can of worms – sticks worm on hook and then lobs it into the Kelvin – he catches a small trout and maybe a parr – he is so exited that the parr dies and he kills the trout to show it off (it was deeply hooked as he was not holding his rod). A passion is then born whereby the boy grows up still loving the excitement of catching fish however decides that he only wants to actually kill selected fish – he understands that he wants to get better at catching fish and learn a bit more about how to go about it – he then goes one of three ways:

1. He takes up fly fishing and enjoys catching trout of any size (possibly salmon too if his wallet is big enough) – kills some, returns some. There is a learning curve which ensures his accidental kill rate goes  dramatically down and his productivity goes up.

2. He goes to the dark side and starts to fish for salmon with spinners (occasionally the fly) – he may also fish the worm – he will find he will catch a lot more salmon with a moving bait and will probably find he catches the odd trout as well – due to the bait being moving and the fact he strikes when he feels the take the trout more often than not will be hooked in the mouth – if it is a good trout he will return it or possibly kill it. Like learning to fly fish there is a learning curve involved – productivity goes up – accidentally killed fish goes down.

3. He may not learn anything new – he may continue to fish the way he has always done – tossing out a worm (or a maggot) and prop his rod on a rod rest or stick (or quite often a bush). As the years go by the area that he fishes becomes bare of grass and litter starts to build as others see it as a “good spot”. In truth he has caught some good fish from the pool – trout like worms – and lives in hope of another one coming along – he watches his rod tip for takes – unfortunately by the time you see the rod tip moving the trout, salmon, parr, eel (as to be honest you cannot target fish with this method) will probably have taken the bait so far down the throat that actually removing it will be impossible without killing the fish – maybe not today however sometime soon. Productivity does not change – accidentally killed fish stays the same.

So the main problem is:

It kills em'

It kills em'

I do not want to start an argument about who is a better fisher – however with all this talk about “The War Against Rod Rests” I thought it might be important to point out why the majority of anglers find it distasteful when they see guys sitting with a few rods pointing at the river – it is not because they do not want the guys to enjoy fishing – it is because they know that accidentally killed fish will be the result. There are times that some fish need to be returned – undersized fish (dare I say beautiful fish) and illegal fish – because yes catching a Salmon when it is in spawning colours or when it is a kelt is illegal – they taste like shit as well. Using the option 3 way of fishing does not allow these fish to be returned.

When I meet some young guys who are just out for a fish and a laugh, maybe even the odd bottle of buckie – and to be honest I count anyone under the age of forty – I smile as maybe, just maybe a spark might be ignited that will lead them on to a path whereby they want to learn more about how to fish and maybe they do not want to kill as many of the returnable fish that are the future of our river systems.

What I do not understand are guys that continually fish this way for years and years – and continually defend a way of fishing that others look on as being bad for the fish. Sure these guys are in the minority however they are also the guys that shout the loudest when there are changes that have to be made – they also try and justify their actions by saying they can fish this way as it is not a rule on a permit. A law does not have to be written on the permit – it is written on a legal paper and these pants:

It is Illegal

It is Illegal

Just in case noone believes the pants – over on the Scottish Parliament web site they are pretty explicit about it:

The definition of rod and line as given in the 1951 Act is “single rod and line with such bait or lure as is lawful at the passing of this Act and, in the case of fishing for salmon in an area to which and at a time during which regulations made under section 8 of the Salmon Act 1986 apply, is not specified in such regulations in respect of that area and time.” This causes practical difficulties for coarse anglers. The prohibition of the use of set lines, which was first enacted in the Fisheries (Scotland) Act 1860, was retained by the 1951 Act. Common practices in angling for coarse fish include ‘ledgering’, where a bait or baits are fished using a weighted line, the rod being set on a rod rest. It can be usual for coarse anglers to set several lines when fishing for coarse fish. The courts have determined that laying down a rod and leaving it supported on a rock or stone constitutes fishing with a set line. This would apply equally to the use of a rod rest. Thus, anyone who fishes for coarse fish in Scotland using accepted methods for that branch of the sport runs the risk of being charged with fishing illegally.

So basically – it is not about the rod rest as such – the law came into being as it kills bloody fish – the fish that we want to catch next year and the year after that.

Anyway, I have no idea what happens next – I just want to go fishing!


  1. shanksi · September 19, 2009

    As I’ve said on the forum sorry to hear that you and Paul have been forced to resign due to the actions of some complete arseholes. From what has been said how do we get Crown bailiffs to go on the river and chase these prats off. They are using an illegal method of fishing and only seem to understand threats and violence. Thought after the EGM that the club was going in the right direction and would be seeing plenty of improvements on the river but now have my doubts. Hopefully see you and Paul on the river soon.

  2. peter · September 19, 2009

    I haven`t always seen eye to eye with Paul and yourself,but
    I find this situation deplorable. The lunatics have definitely taken over the asylum. These b@5t@rds have ruined
    what were arguably some of the nicest stretches of the Kelvin :- golf course – the science park – the vet school – and some of the upper stretches are heading the same way. All due to guys sitting with set lines. They are the real pollution of the river.

  3. peter · September 19, 2009

    I would also like to say that by resigning, you may paving the way for one or two of these dumbfucks to get on the committee. I`d ask both of you to reconsider your resignations. Surely as a club we can come up with a solution to this problem, if we are all united.

  4. The Trout Underground · September 19, 2009

    It’s not entirely clear what’s happening here, but then, that might have something to do with the (ahem) photographs. I do, however, understand the concept of being threatened for trying to do the right thing, and hope this resolves. Given the vast numbers of absolute yahoos on the planet, I have my doubts.

  5. charlie dunn · September 19, 2009

    you’ve all got it wrong!

  6. Alistair · September 19, 2009

    You said you were going to be restrained Charlie – I bet that took a bit of effort! 🙂

  7. ANDY C · September 19, 2009

    wits happing

  8. charlie dunn · September 19, 2009

    and i’ll tell you guys something else-the attitudes on the river were changing for the better on most stretches of the river!.i blame a lot of people for pauls resignation,but no one more than paul himself,because he went out with the police.whats wrong with that?-well as alistair said-they were out and jailing everybody they could find.the club relies on goodwill and support from all its members-and paul commited the ultimate sin by helping plod jail people who have nothing to do with the fishing on the river!.this is why he had to go-still,at least the head bailiff will be happy-dont slag wee wullie,as a far more senior bailiff wanted paul out far more than him,as paul would probably ended up putting him off the water,thus ruining his chance of becoming a paid crown bailiff at the considerable cost of the kaa’s members-because he is utterly useless at this as he has the courage of a mouse….all u guys who want crown bailiffs on the system beware-because our crown bailiffs will be scobie and kippsy…can you hear the rumbling?-that will be all the poachers quaking in thier boots-not!

  9. charlie dunn · September 19, 2009

    i also felt that a lot of people were e-mailing paul through the official website,and urging him to be more pro-active on the river-so paul duly obliged them-even though he didn’t have he put himself about the river in an effort to change peoples attitudes to angling.there is no real poaching as such being done on the kelvin,so paul took on old timer-set liner brigade,and put a lot of noses out of joint!.this should not have been taken on by paul,as it wasent stated on the permit-so always gave the setliners a point to argue.i think we’re all fecked now to be honest-there is no way we’re going to find guys who were as intelligent as paul and alistair to fill these posts-so the club will now go backwards!me-well, i think i’ve had enough of all the backstabbing politics also-who wants to be a bailiff?.

  10. Andy C · September 19, 2009

    nice Tshirt

  11. Alistair · September 19, 2009

    The thing is – if you are a crown bailiff authorised through the RCFMT (River Clyde Fisheries Management Trust) and you do something daft then you not only get struck off as a bailiff you would also get yourself banned for bringing them into disrepute.

  12. shanksi · September 19, 2009

    On your first post you say that “helping plod jail people who have nothing to do with the fishing on the river”, do you mean that they were not members of RKAA? On the second post although not on the permit it does say that rods must be attended at all times which I suppose is a bit ambiguous but they have been told that it’s against the law so have no excuse. Have to agree that the club will probably go backwards altho after reading Euan’s post all may not be lost.

  13. shanksi · September 19, 2009

    As regards Crown Bailiffs on the river wouldn’t have a problem with this as I fish within the rules of the club and the land. Do they have to be from the river’s own bailiffs as I remember talking to one on the Cart who was covering a stretch of the Clyde because the local clubs guys were too scared to?

  14. Alistair · September 19, 2009

    My understanding is that a crown bailiff is only for one particular river – if we had a secretary we could look into it 😉

  15. charlie dunn · September 19, 2009

    yes,shanksi-i have been led to believe that paul was with the police when they were jailing and searching people who were not fishing-i think that was very foolish.and yes,-you’re right-no fairly fishing angler has anything to fear from any bailiff!apparently paul had been told by all the other bailiffs to stay off the water for his own safety the night before-and agreed,-only to go down with police the next day.i didn’t go to the meeting,but know that this was indeed the case.paul did say in his defence that he did mention that he was going to walk the river the next day with police-but all the bailiffs rubbished this-and so did euan.

  16. shanksi · September 19, 2009

    This meeting that keeps on getting mentioned on here and on the forum, who was supposed to attend it? Was it for the committee and bailiffs only?
    Hopefully this will all get cleared up at the AGM and next year the permits will lay out clearly what is allowed and what is not so no angler can claim it’s ok to break the law ‘cos it’s not on the permit.
    Alistair – this guy definitely said he was covering the Clyde altho he was a bailiff on another stretch of the river so maybe that was how he could do it. Did say they always went in pairs for security and for witnesses if anything happened.

  17. charlie dunn · September 19, 2009

    only the bailiffs and committee were supposed to attend shanksi-i arrived alone,only to be met by a big crowd,who were not meant to be there!wee euan should have told them to piss off-but didn’t.

  18. shanksi · September 19, 2009

    that’s the bit I don’t understand. Why was the meeting allowed to carry on if there was a crowd of guys who had no right being there in attendance and they certainly should have played no part in any votes that were taken? As you say they should have been told to leave or no meeting would take place.


  19. charlie dunn · September 19, 2009

    you’re right shanksi-i would have told them where to go-but it wasn’t a vote meeting,it was called for paul to explain his actions the previous week-and i think now everyone should have a good idea what happened-its all been explained very well i reckon-only the idiots who dont go onto the river,and sit like dead beats hiding in thier houses typing illiterate rubbish on thier laptops!!!by the way-does anyone know what “haping” means?..

  20. shanksi · September 19, 2009

    No idea what haping means. Like the way your avatar thing on here keeps changing Charlie does that mean your calming down or getting angrier?

  21. peter · September 19, 2009

    I read the preamble, then Charlie`s post and it now seems there are two versions of the Secs. resignation. One cites the set line brigade, the other non anglers. Reading between the lines, it seems the Secretary`s position became untenable, forcing him to resign. Was the treasurer put under pressure to resign also? If so for what reason? At the EGM, there seemed to be friction between bailiffs and committee and I wondered if this had any bearing on the resignations. Maybe some one will see fit to post a clear and truthful account,before this farcical situation gets any worse.

  22. charlie dunn · September 19, 2009

    what i meant to say was-only an idiot would be unsure as to how tuesdays events unfolded.

  23. charlie dunn · September 19, 2009

    alistair was put under no pressure to resign by anyone-unlike paul!.he is quite simply pissed off and appalled at the events which unfolded last week-and who could blame him!.and you better believe i’m getting angrier-paul was doing exellent work for us all-selflessly,as he was very busy setting up funding for the hatchery that we so badly need,and alistair will verify this-i’ve been screaming for this for years now,and just when you think it may happen-all this shit does instead!!!!-the thing is-the removal of one man would have stopped all this shit happening. in fact,as long as he’s in place-the rkaa is always going backwards!!!.p.s.i also identified this problem years ago.

  24. Si · September 19, 2009

    I am struggling to see how it is wrong for an elected member of a club such as this one to accompany the police on a walk on the river. If people found during the walk happen to be doing something illegal (fishing methods or otherwise)then they should by all accounts get jailed. I think it is a bit sad that the law abiding public should feel that they cannot stand shoulder to shoulder with the police to tackle law breaking of any kind. As to bailiffs being to scared to do anything I cannot blame them. I witnessed two gangs fighting on the river bank last week, some of them using knives. Admittedly I could not tell if any off them had come to fish but it shows the mentality of some people who can be encountered on a “quiet” evenings fishing. Some people should not be tackled by anyone except the police. Anybody who has the nerve to walk the river and challenge people who are breaking the rules (whilst accompanied by the police or otherwise) should be applauded, as should those who volunteer their spare time to help improve things for the silent (and not so silent) majority who enjoy the river without involving themselves directly in the running of the club.

  25. Andy C · September 19, 2009

    idiots deadbeats hiding illiterate cheers didnt stop u fae coming up did it

  26. ANDY C · September 19, 2009

    or fishing way us

  27. ANDY C · September 19, 2009

    and my mis-spelling had 2 p’s no 1 lol

  28. dan lurchien · September 19, 2009

    just boght my ticket a few weeks ago,and get the meaning of just about evryting els-bt dont no wot andy c goin on about?

  29. neil durchan · September 19, 2009

    i dont get it either,is this a child on its parents computer?.(you can only hope he cant access more serious adult material).

  30. peter · September 19, 2009

    neil durchan
    September 23rd, 2009 at 2:56 pm
    i dont get it either,is this a child on its parents computer?.(you can only hope he
    cant access more serious adult material).

    WICKED Peter.

  31. Andy C · September 19, 2009

    read the comments

  32. shanksi · September 19, 2009

    Understand what Andy means. Not sure about having split personalities on here as we have enough fun with normal folk Dan & Neil. Or should that be Ned and Nail.

  33. selrahc nnud · September 19, 2009

    ha ha ha.

  34. peter · September 19, 2009

    Does this signify the end of the official web site ?,I ask because the contacts link isn`t working.

  35. Alistair · September 19, 2009

    Hey Peter – the official site will continue – do not know why the contact form is not working ,,,,,,,,,,just checked and it is working fine…I now forward all mails to Euan.

  36. davie sheerin · September 19, 2009

    get the headache pills out if there was just as much effort put into catching fish as there is on petty politics then maybe word on the river would be of personal bests missed oppertunitys and a good old bit of old fashioned fibbing on wot size the unfortunate fish was bet youve all done in the apprentice years our sport is at risk not just from ground level so less bitchin more casting troops if we wanted moaned at wed stay at home with the missus

  37. davie sheerin · September 19, 2009

    hardy could do a new range of kevlar vests

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